And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Given how he treated civilians from there to the sea, highly unlikely justification. He waged total war against the civilian population. A war criminal by today's standards. And probably by the standards of the 1800's as well.
@Mind - Don't believe the hype. Sherman wrote several letters begging the Confederates to relocate their defenses so that cannon shells that missed wouldn't hit Atlanta. He even offered ceasefires to give them the opportunity. The Confederate generals refused. As for "total war against the civilians" - BS. There were still people alive in Georgia and South Carolina at the end of the war. Most of them even had houses. And he didn't even burn most of the fields. As for cattle, well, his men ate them.
There is a reason for that. Military officers were expected to have a portrait commissioned after a promotion. These were done by painters Painters would take on apprentices. The apprentices would paint military officer uniforms, to suit various anatomies and services. The painter would select a suitable uniform and add the head to the painting
The hardest thing to draw well is the human hand, the apprentices were beginners, so they cheated. they painted the hand tucked into the uniform.
if you search for portraits of George Washington you will find that about 5 percent have the hand in the uniform.
"The very idea of war crimes – even though there was a generally acknowledged code of conduct in war at this time – is indeed a concept of the late 19th and early 20th century, foreign to those living, fighting and dying in the early 19th century. Nobody would have expected to be tried in court for committing such, except, in rare cases, by their own government and their own government alone."
While we're here, let's not forget Little Phil Sheridan laying waste to the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. Perhaps on lesser per capita scale, but equally devastating to citizens living in the Valley. Expression of the time described it "a crow flying the length of the valley would have to pack a lunch". Livestock and crops were either killed, burnt or confiscated. Sixty-odd years later, FDR displaced - forcibly in some instances - Valley residents from homes & farms to build Skyline Drive. Hard feelings in some cases still exist, others have simply calloused over. Such doings by government provide lessons to be studied & learned from by participants in the current war between Russia & Ukraine.
It has not been possible to win a war of conquest short of a scorched earth approach for some time. Anything short of this kills more people on the installment plan.
I cannot find the website with the correspondence between Sherman and his wife, but she advocated for the slaughter of all Southerners and replacing them with loyal Northerners, and he did his level best. His stated goal was to kill 100K Southerners, and he may have done it.
New Manchester, GA was wiped out as a town in GA with the men killed and any who survived were (women and children) sent up north to work in factories never to return.
When he was allowed to turn his attention to Indians, he was just as brutal. Again, thousands dead while violating treaties made by the US government.
He was one of the reasons why Hitler admired the way that Lincoln fought the War Between the States.
While I believe that God will forgive sins based on true repentance, Sherman most likely is in hell. Nice guy to honor.
Of course he fought mostly in his native Virginia. You drive the invaders out of your land before taking the war to them. Your point is weak. That said, when he did cross into Union lands, he commanded his troops to not harm civilians. Sherman had no such limitations.
Whats a war criminal? Because the guvmint didn't say it was okay to kill whatever then your a criminal? War is killing and that is why sane people refrain to the last day hour minute such as we see ourselves today. But when war begins, sanity ends. Just my personal observation. Peace out.
My great grandfather was in the 80th Indiana, barely survived the Battle of Resaca, GA. Part of Sherman's run up to the March to the Sea. The old boy survived until 1923, had 9 kids.
He ordered Atlanta burned only because his troops were being sniped from the upper floors of buildings. Problem rectified.
ReplyDeleteGiven how he treated civilians from there to the sea, highly unlikely justification. He waged total war against the civilian population. A war criminal by today's standards. And probably by the standards of the 1800's as well.
Delete@Mind - Don't believe the hype. Sherman wrote several letters begging the Confederates to relocate their defenses so that cannon shells that missed wouldn't hit Atlanta. He even offered ceasefires to give them the opportunity. The Confederate generals refused. As for "total war against the civilians" - BS. There were still people alive in Georgia and South Carolina at the end of the war. Most of them even had houses. And he didn't even burn most of the fields. As for cattle, well, his men ate them.
DeleteThe Hidden Hand
ReplyDeleteThere is a reason for that. Military officers were expected to have a portrait commissioned after a promotion. These were done by painters Painters would take on apprentices. The apprentices would paint military officer uniforms, to suit various anatomies and services. The painter would select a suitable uniform and add the head to the painting
DeleteThe hardest thing to draw well is the human hand, the apprentices were beginners, so they cheated. they painted the hand tucked into the uniform.
if you search for portraits of George Washington you will find that about 5 percent have the hand in the uniform.
It's good when you win a war. No one wants to investigate the unlawful measures used to win it.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteNo such thing as "unlawful measures" to win a war. War is actions taken outside the law. The winners live, the losers die.
DeleteParts of Oregon and Calif now want to secede to free states because they live under democrat tyranny.
ReplyDeleteBy today’s standards he would be a war criminal…
ReplyDeleteAnd probably by the standards of his own time.
DeleteThen again ...
https://www.dukeofwellington.org/post/french-war-crimes-against-civilians
"The very idea of war crimes – even though there was a generally acknowledged code of conduct in war at this time – is indeed a concept of the late 19th and early 20th century, foreign to those living, fighting and dying in the early 19th century. Nobody would have expected to be tried in court for committing such, except, in rare cases, by their own government and their own government alone."
DeleteHe also understood politics:
ReplyDelete"If nominated I will not run; if elected I will not serve."
Fuck Sherman. He was a war criminal in service to a tyrant. At least Grant had enough honor to limit the fighting to the army which opposed him.
ReplyDeleteJackson Mississippi received the nickname “Chimneyville” because Sherman burned it to the ground three times.
ReplyDelete"War is all hell." If you have been in one, you know.
ReplyDeleteWhile we're here, let's not forget Little Phil Sheridan laying waste to the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. Perhaps on lesser per capita scale, but equally devastating to citizens living in the Valley. Expression of the time described it "a crow flying the length of the valley would have to pack a lunch". Livestock and crops were either killed, burnt or confiscated.
ReplyDeleteSixty-odd years later, FDR displaced - forcibly in some instances - Valley residents from homes & farms to build Skyline Drive. Hard feelings in some cases still exist, others have simply calloused over.
Such doings by government provide lessons to be studied & learned from by participants in the current war between Russia & Ukraine.
Phil Sheridan..."I saw a dead Indian today. And it was good."
ReplyDeleteIt has not been possible to win a war of conquest short of a scorched earth approach for some time. Anything short of this kills more people on the installment plan.
ReplyDeleteI cannot find the website with the correspondence between Sherman and his wife, but she advocated for the slaughter of all Southerners and replacing them with loyal Northerners, and he did his level best. His stated goal was to kill 100K Southerners, and he may have done it.
ReplyDeleteNew Manchester, GA was wiped out as a town in GA with the men killed and any who survived were (women and children) sent up north to work in factories never to return.
When he was allowed to turn his attention to Indians, he was just as brutal. Again, thousands dead while violating treaties made by the US government.
He was one of the reasons why Hitler admired the way that Lincoln fought the War Between the States.
While I believe that God will forgive sins based on true repentance, Sherman most likely is in hell. Nice guy to honor.
Stonewall Jackson knew war and forbid attacks on civilians. Sherman knew slaughter and considered the defenseless easy prey.
ReplyDeleteRight. Pull the other one. It's got bells on.
DeleteJackson died early on in the war, and for the most part fought only on friendly territory.
Of course he fought mostly in his native Virginia. You drive the invaders out of your land before taking the war to them. Your point is weak. That said, when he did cross into Union lands, he commanded his troops to not harm civilians. Sherman had no such limitations.
DeleteI will let you do your own pulling.
One thing I truly fault Sherman with: when he burned down Atlanta, he did not sow the ground with salt. I can say that as a native Georgian.
ReplyDeleteWar criminal.
ReplyDeleteWhats a war criminal? Because the guvmint didn't say it was okay to kill whatever then your a criminal? War is killing and that is why sane people refrain to the last day hour minute such as we see ourselves today. But when war begins, sanity ends. Just my personal observation. Peace out.
ReplyDeleteMy great grandfather was in the 80th Indiana, barely survived the Battle of Resaca, GA. Part of Sherman's run up to the March to the Sea. The old boy survived until 1923, had 9 kids.
ReplyDelete