And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Monday, July 29, 2024
Incredible engineering and manufacturing prowess to produce that
As much as I love this piece of mechanical art lets not fool our selves. Carburetors and points ignition were incredibly unreliable. You may be too young to know or too old to remember but we used to spend an incredible amount of time tuning points and carburetors just so that cars were able to move. I can't tell how many times I had to push a car/truck as a kid to get them to start. On the flip side, since electronic injection/ignition became standard cars run always. We don't spend weekends on the driveway trying to figure out why the dam thing doesn't run! (not to mention fuel efficiency gains and pollution reduction)
Like I said. This is a beautiful engine. Great to look at and I'm sure it makes a lovely noise too. But if my life depends on it I want a modern engine.
Not 'incredibly unreliable'. Incredible amount of time tuning points and carburetors? That's just nonsense. They were very simple systems that worked fine with the required maintenance. My guess is you must be a very poor shade tree mechanic to have had so much trouble in your youth. My 351 Cleveland Cobra Jet V8 has a dual point system - no trouble whatsoever changing points and plugs on schedule. Maybe 20 minutes and change the oil and filters at the same time. I still have that car. And my name is not Smokey Yunick.
Maybe the incredibly unreliable comment comes from a Brit who has had cars with Lucas electrics and Stromberg carbs. As I do in a 65 Sunbeam. And which I am replacing as this is written.
Once that little pad on the end of the points came off and I was still able to adjust them to get me home. 68 CJ5. Never had much trouble with carbs on any vehicle if you didn't mess with them.
People, don't let your rose colored glasses alter your memories!
Points and carburetors were so reliable that since the early 90's there has not been a carbureted car/truck for sale in the US. That is 30 years ago. Motorcycles dropped carburetors in the early 2000's
Two of my bikes have carbs- they run better than the fuel injected ones, mostly, I suppose, due to the EPA testing requirements that kill all the fuel at once when the throttle is rolled off- the bike manufacturers have worked their tails off, but they are still a bit herky jerky with on-off throttle transitions. The carbed bikes run like an electric rheostat by comparison.
Mags have points and they do change time; point pads and gears wear. There’s a capacitor in there too. They have to be internally timed before you can install them on the engine and then you get to time them to the engine. And you get to do that every 100 flight hours. Small engines, like general aviation stuff, have 2. The one pictured has 4 I believe. The R-2800’s I wrenched on have 2 and timing them can be an all day sucker.
IIRC, most of those ww2 aircraft engines were only rated for 100 hours of flight before needing some serious maintenance attention. The navy tossed the F-14 Tomcat due to it needing 50 manhours of attention for every flight hour.
56 Sparkplugs. 28 Cyl x 2 plugs per Cyl. 56 Plugs Per Engine x 4 Engines. 224 Plugs. No Wonder Crew Chiefs hated them. And One Bad landing, could overheat all the engines, and force a plug change, on every engine.
And they usually had to shut down at least one on every flight. But hell, this was a couple years after WW2 and the planes were awesome...shook the earth.
for the geeks here- Pratt made electrically operable cutaways of these engines. Don't know how many, one is in the Evergreen aviation museum in McMinnville,OR Another one (IIRC) is at the Western Antique airplane museum in Hood River, OR.
Back in the day, Denver was central to United Airlines effort to be transcontinental. Lots of those later recip engines needed a maintenance base midcontinent.
what the hell is it?
ReplyDeletePratt&Whitney Wasp Major R4360
ReplyDeleteA Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major aircraft engine with turbocompressor .
ReplyDeleteAnd by the way those things don't throw fault codes. When something goes wrong you just have to figure it out.
ReplyDeleteAnd all done with slide rules, drafting boards, and wooden patterns to make castings.
ReplyDeleteAir cooled, supercharged, carbureted, points ignition and can break or be shot up and it’ll still run good enough to get the pilot home sometimes.
ReplyDeleteEmphasis on sometimes!
DeleteAs much as I love this piece of mechanical art lets not fool our selves. Carburetors and points ignition were incredibly unreliable.
You may be too young to know or too old to remember but we used to spend an incredible amount of time tuning points and carburetors just so that cars were able to move. I can't tell how many times I had to push a car/truck as a kid to get them to start.
On the flip side, since electronic injection/ignition became standard cars run always. We don't spend weekends on the driveway trying to figure out why the dam thing doesn't run! (not to mention fuel efficiency gains and pollution reduction)
Like I said. This is a beautiful engine. Great to look at and I'm sure it makes a lovely noise too. But if my life depends on it I want a modern engine.
Not 'incredibly unreliable'. Incredible amount of time tuning points and carburetors? That's just nonsense. They were very simple systems that worked fine with the required maintenance. My guess is you must be a very poor shade tree mechanic to have had so much trouble in your youth. My 351 Cleveland Cobra Jet V8 has a dual point system - no trouble whatsoever changing points and plugs on schedule. Maybe 20 minutes and change the oil and filters at the same time. I still have that car. And my name is not Smokey Yunick.
DeleteMaybe the incredibly unreliable comment comes from a Brit who has had cars with Lucas electrics and Stromberg carbs. As I do in a 65 Sunbeam. And which I am replacing as this is written.
DeleteNot points...magnetos. Very reliable. They take some setting up, but once set, they don't change timing and are long lasting.
DeleteIf you think points and carbs such are unreliable, you have either never used them or are simply a poor mechanic.
Once that little pad on the end of the points came off and I was still able to adjust them to get me home. 68 CJ5. Never had much trouble with carbs on any vehicle if you didn't mess with them.
DeletePeople, don't let your rose colored glasses alter your memories!
DeletePoints and carburetors were so reliable that since the early 90's there has not been a carbureted car/truck for sale in the US. That is 30 years ago.
Motorcycles dropped carburetors in the early 2000's
Two of my bikes have carbs- they run better than the fuel injected ones, mostly, I suppose, due to the EPA testing requirements that kill all the fuel at once when the throttle is rolled off- the bike manufacturers have worked their tails off, but they are still a bit herky jerky with on-off throttle transitions. The carbed bikes run like an electric rheostat by comparison.
DeleteMags have points and they do change time; point pads and gears wear. There’s a capacitor in there too. They have to be internally timed before you can install them on the engine and then you get to time them to the engine. And you get to do that every 100 flight hours. Small engines, like general aviation stuff, have 2. The one pictured has 4 I believe. The R-2800’s I wrenched on have 2 and timing them can be an all day sucker.
Delete"since the early 90's there has not been a carbureted car/truck for sale in the US."
DeleteOur EPA won't allow them to be sold new. Get a clue.
I’m told it was a maintenance nightmare, but very reliable in flight. As long as you did the requisite 100 hours in hanger for every flight hour.
ReplyDeleteIIRC, most of those ww2 aircraft engines were only rated for 100 hours of flight before needing some serious maintenance attention. The navy tossed the F-14 Tomcat due to it needing 50 manhours of attention for every flight hour.
Delete56 Sparkplugs. 28 Cyl x 2 plugs per Cyl. 56 Plugs Per Engine x 4 Engines. 224 Plugs. No Wonder Crew Chiefs hated them. And One Bad landing, could overheat all the engines, and force a plug change, on every engine.
ReplyDeleteHow does a bad landing overheat the engines? Just curious.
DeleteHave fun doing that cylinder compression check on those hot motors…..
DeleteB/RB-36 had 6 of them. Oh, BTW, the R4360 was dual ignition. So changing 336 spark plugs was a rather significant endeavor.
ReplyDeleteAnd they usually had to shut down at least one on every flight. But hell, this was a couple years after WW2 and the planes were awesome...shook the earth.
Deletefor the geeks here- Pratt made electrically operable cutaways of these engines.
ReplyDeleteDon't know how many, one is in the Evergreen aviation museum in McMinnville,OR
Another one (IIRC) is at the Western Antique airplane museum in Hood River, OR.
Saw a cutaway also at the Naval Air Museum in Pensacola. The gearing is
Deleteunbelievable!
Bubbarust
Heat was the problem....they like wind or they burn. Still, I'm waiting on someone to put one one wheels, and another in a boat.
ReplyDeleteAfrican made?
ReplyDeleteyou know dam good and well a colored lady invented all that sheeet....
ReplyDeleteBack in the day, Denver was central to United Airlines effort to be transcontinental. Lots of those later recip engines needed a maintenance base midcontinent.
ReplyDeleteAnd they did that with slide rules and drafting tables...
ReplyDelete