And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Wednesday, August 7, 2024
The Chinese clearly copied us. I wonder who the spy was that got them the plans?
Looks like the Chinese either don't understand the shaping aspects of radar cross-section (RCS) reduction, or had a good aerodynamic reason to compromise their RCS. Their fighter will have a larger RCS than ours, guaranteed. Maybe next time the Chinese should copy the Russians instead of us, if they are going to screw up what they stole from us. ~ Doctor Weasel
You can't 'reverse engineer' from photos. They got the plans and specs for it, and that is clear. What is also clear is that they could not replicate it.
Virtually all the tech the Chinese have and much of what Russia has was obtained by espionage of some type. It's much much cheaper and easier to have the US do the R&D and then steal or buy it. And a lot of that data was sold to them by quisling traitor Americans who should all be hung....including the Clinton Crime Cabal who sold missile tech to Beijing in the 90's.
Really? Obama and Biden? What evidence do you have?
All you have to do is buy a ticket to Mar A Lago and Trump will gladly blab about confidential programs to anyone! Let alone if you offer to pay him for the information.
A chinese national was found roaming in Mar A Lago. She was sent to jail and deported. How many have not been caught?
All this while Trump was illegally retaining confidential information in a bathroom in Mar A Lago.
Do we need to go into how much Trump LOVES the Chinese dictator or is that enough. Trump plays the tough guy on TV and in his rallies but then praises Xi Jinping.
For some reason there are hundreds of videos of Trump praising Xi Jinping but I can't find any of Obama or Biden doing the same thing.
Hopefully in a little while, all the "Never Trumpers" will have to STFU when Mr. Trump is back in the White House and un-f*cking the horrible mess that "Old - Slow" Joe and the libtards have created in our once-great nation.
1. Closing the southern border and exporting illegal aliens...including hundreds of thousands of military aged Chinese nationals should be the #1 issue. 2. Then fixing consumer prices for gasoline, food and other staples. 3. Forcing the UN and NATO to get the Russians out of Ukraine. 4. Kicking ass and taking names in the Middle East. 5. Reversing some of the insane DEI rules and hiring practices.
I am sure that there are a 100 more issues plaguing us.
Anon 1:39PM....... The Democrats have been in bed with the Chinese since Bill Clinton was selling Loral technology to them for illegal contributions. Pelosi had a ChiCom as her personal driver for decades. Kirzner was doing FanFang until he got caught- and still stayed on the Security council. Nice little rant BTW, now sit down Karen.
I don't have any evidence against Clinton, But Barack Obama admitted that an RQ-170 Sentinel stealth drone was abandoned in Iran after the Iranians apparently commandeered the RQ's onboard software and landed it. I'm sure the Russians and Chinese, both Iranian allies, were all over it for the stealthy design, microelectronics, and software. In his defense (:-D), Obama did "ask" the Iranians to return the multibillion dollar R&D cost top-secret drone to the US military. Oddly, despite the pallets of cash delivered to Tehran, the Iranians declined the request.
Hey Anonymous August 7, 2024 at 1:39 PM Trump as president could declassify almost anything he wanted. As a former President he was allowed to keep documents from his term under the Presidential Records Act. Meanwhile, there is no Vice Presidential Records Act or Senatorial Records Act. Joe Biden hid boxes of classified in his garage, and had no legal authority to do so. When it was time to prosecute him, FBI declined because he was a senile old fool (not their exact words). So will you criticize Biden now? ~ Doctor Weasel
The SU57 Felon looks like a form follows function thing, more with the great YF23 than any other 5th Gen, which the YF23 had some truly excellent features to it. We will never know now, but I'll wager the YF23 would in the long run been a more wiser choice than the YF22 which was selected over the 23. First time I looked at photos of the SU57 right off the bat it had similar lines to the YF23. Same area rule dimensions, very similar ratios over all, similar all turning tail planes, related wing but looks like the Russians designed better, but the area rule is there in both. Both just beautiful aircraft. The 22 and chink 5th Gen's don't have those natural graceful lines. But that a solely personal perspective.
Oh, yeah, hope they get the SU75 up and in production, thats going to be a instant classic fighter, if the Russian's pull it off, which they most likely will if they receive tenders for it. Probably be in relative terms the next F16 but its 5-6th Gen version. A stealth advanced hot rod, especially if the Russian's put their next gen hi bypass turbo mach 1 super cruise fiery heart in it, think its close to 45,000 with afterburner.
The problem with the 5th Gen Chinese airplanes is their engines. They can't develop the thrust that ours can. The engines also tend to come apart when they are pushed.
They are a gutter culture, and all of their advancements are built on the work western, White civilization has done that they stole, or tried to copy. What they don't have, and will never have, is the discipline that it took to create and master. They can certainly copy the F-22, or an aircraft carrier, but they don't have the learning and the failures and the triumphs that it took to get to where we are (or were, now that the military has gone fake and gay). Like the chinese garbage you and I have in our homes, it will all fail, and fail spectacularly.
There have been Chinese spies caught inside Lockheed Martin. I did a quick web search and found a few instances. Also there were reports that the Chinese hacked into LM's non-classified networks where some design info was stored.
Who was the spy? "The internet" did it. Plus, we import tens of thousands of Chinese spies every year in the form of "students". And hire them on at defense contractors. And don't get me started on using Cubans to build our ships.
Besides - who do you think built most of the components?
The ignorant bigotry displayed here today is disgraceful. That China copied a lot of technology 30 years ago is true. But today China is the world's leader in cutting edge technology, and on average Chinese technology is superior to American technology. That the airplanes are similar is a consequence of wind tunnels and radar flection theory (which is Russian, by the way).
So, China has 80% of the world's 5G base stations, and while we use ours (which are second rate), China runs specialized AI on them to optimize the operations of their factories and ports. China has three-quarters of all the high speed train trackage in the world; all of their cities are connected by high speed rail. They have most of the super computers in the world, and until last year they had the two fastest, all completely homegrown from chips to operating system.
China has 10 times as many engineers and scientists as we do. They lead the world in new patents and in refereed science and engineering papers. About 30% of the graduate students in OUR STEM programs are Chinese citizens, and they go home.
The Chinese economy is growing 3 times as fast as ours, and it is real growth, growth in manufacturing not services. China already has one-third of the world's manufacturing capacity, 75% of its shipbuilding capacity, and all of it is highly optimized. China is a high wage country, at least in its cities. The CPC moved 800 million Chinese from rural poverty to urban life styles that are the equivalent of Western Europe, and maybe better. Xi and the Chinese leadership are publicly committed to raising up the remaining 600 million.
In this country, working class real incomes have been declining and middle class incomes have been stagnant since the '60's. The upper class has captured all the economic growth for 60 years, and they have clawed income away from the workers. We are the only advanced country with a falling life expectancy, just like Russia before Putin took over. Our major cities are filthy and dangerous. Homeless are everywhere. Two-thirds of the population are obese, even children. The number of white people is declining, and our public and private institutions are in a frenzy of anti-white bigotry.
We have fought and lost one stupid, pointless war after another for over 30 years. Somalia, our longest war, has entered its 4th decade. The Houthis have humiliated the US and NATO navies. And we have a ruling class that has a blood lust and is actively seeking wars. We started the Ukraine war with a coup in 2014, and we keep it going at all costs, sabotaging any peace initiative that arises. Netanyahu is maneuvering us into attacking Iran, and he likely will succeed.
He didn't say "America bad", he merely illustrated the rampant ignorance in most of the comments. While this country has been perfecting DEI, Russia, China and Iran have been perfecting their own technologies and they are now way ahead of us in many advanced technological fields. Their hypersonic missile technology, for instance is at least a decade ahead.
Feel free to contradict anything the above poster said. Because it is pretty damned spot on. Flying back into this country a few weeks ago was sadly a third world experience.
Not so much. The Chengdu J-20 Mighty Dragon is a very different design than the Lockheed-Martin F-22 Raptor, being a delta wing with canards rather than a conventional layout, it's much larger and has a much longer range. It's designed to meet different requirements than the F-22: J-20 vs F-22
Honestly, some of the comments here remind me of some of the ignorant beliefs about Japanese capabilities before WW2. They lost, but we damned sure knew we'd been in a serious fight. The difference now is that the manufacturing capability shoe is on the otheer foot now. There will be no more F-22s, while the J-20 is in production. F-22 may be higher quality in many ways, but as Germany learned to its sorrow in WW2, "Quantity has a quality all its own."
Yes, the Chinese steal tech. Only a moron wouldn't use pre-existing research if it was available. We do, too, when and where we can. We still have the advantage there, but China is working really damned hard to pull ahead while we whoop our own asses with bureaucratic grit in the gears and DEI-type idiocies.
I remember when they found chinese spyware in the chips used in DoD servers. Stayed on the news for about two days. Since it has been found on routers. You would think that someone on our side would have thought to prevent that by maybe only using American made chips. Before you start, we can make our own just not as cheaply
Looks like the Chinese either don't understand the shaping aspects of radar cross-section (RCS) reduction, or had a good aerodynamic reason to compromise their RCS.
ReplyDeleteTheir fighter will have a larger RCS than ours, guaranteed. Maybe next time the Chinese should copy the Russians instead of us, if they are going to screw up what they stole from us.
~ Doctor Weasel
First flight of the F22 was in 1997, if I remember correctly, they've had plenty of time to get pictures and reverse eng it.
ReplyDeleteYou can't 'reverse engineer' from photos. They got the plans and specs for it, and that is clear. What is also clear is that they could not replicate it.
DeleteVirtually all the tech the Chinese have and much of what Russia has was obtained by espionage of some type. It's much much cheaper and easier to have the US do the R&D and then steal or buy it. And a lot of that data was sold to them by quisling traitor Americans who should all be hung....including the Clinton Crime Cabal who sold missile tech to Beijing in the 90's.
ReplyDelete👆🏻👆🏻 👍🏻
DeleteObama and Biden....OF COURSE.
ReplyDeleteReally? Obama and Biden? What evidence do you have?
DeleteAll you have to do is buy a ticket to Mar A Lago and Trump will gladly blab about confidential programs to anyone! Let alone if you offer to pay him for the information.
A chinese national was found roaming in Mar A Lago. She was sent to jail and deported. How many have not been caught?
All this while Trump was illegally retaining confidential information in a bathroom in Mar A Lago.
Do we need to go into how much Trump LOVES the Chinese dictator or is that enough. Trump plays the tough guy on TV and in his rallies but then praises Xi Jinping.
For some reason there are hundreds of videos of Trump praising Xi Jinping but I can't find any of Obama or Biden doing the same thing.
Settle down, Karen.
DeleteHopefully in a little while, all the "Never Trumpers" will have to STFU when Mr. Trump is back in the White House and un-f*cking the horrible mess that "Old - Slow" Joe and the libtards have created in our once-great nation.
Delete1. Closing the southern border and exporting illegal aliens...including hundreds of thousands of military aged Chinese nationals should be the #1 issue.
2. Then fixing consumer prices for gasoline, food and other staples.
3. Forcing the UN and NATO to get the Russians out of Ukraine.
4. Kicking ass and taking names in the Middle East.
5. Reversing some of the insane DEI rules and hiring practices.
I am sure that there are a 100 more issues plaguing us.
Anon 1:39PM.......
DeleteThe Democrats have been in bed with the Chinese since Bill Clinton was selling Loral technology to them for illegal contributions.
Pelosi had a ChiCom as her personal driver for decades.
Kirzner was doing FanFang until he got caught- and still stayed on the Security council.
Nice little rant BTW, now sit down Karen.
I don't have any evidence against Clinton, But Barack Obama admitted that an RQ-170 Sentinel stealth drone was abandoned in Iran after the Iranians apparently commandeered the RQ's onboard software and landed it. I'm sure the Russians and Chinese, both Iranian allies, were all over it for the stealthy design, microelectronics, and software. In his defense (:-D), Obama did "ask" the Iranians to return the multibillion dollar R&D cost top-secret drone to the US military. Oddly, despite the pallets of cash delivered to Tehran, the Iranians declined the request.
DeleteA-non @1:39, I can tell that whatever the lame stream media puts out is gospel to you demorats. Just wait until jamie ratskins starts a civil war.
DeleteHey Anonymous August 7, 2024 at 1:39 PM
DeleteTrump as president could declassify almost anything he wanted. As a former President he was allowed to keep documents from his term under the Presidential Records Act.
Meanwhile, there is no Vice Presidential Records Act or Senatorial Records Act. Joe Biden hid boxes of classified in his garage, and had no legal authority to do so. When it was time to prosecute him, FBI declined because he was a senile old fool (not their exact words). So will you criticize Biden now?
~ Doctor Weasel
Inslee
ReplyDeleteMight be that optimal aerodynamics lead to similar designs. They use the same physics as us.
ReplyDeleteBut if they're anything like a lot of Indians and Brazilians, they don't actually understand the words that they're reading.
DeleteThe SU57 Felon looks like a form follows function thing, more with the great YF23 than any other 5th Gen, which the YF23 had some truly excellent features to it. We will never know now, but I'll wager the YF23 would in the long run been a more wiser choice than the YF22 which was selected over the 23.
ReplyDeleteFirst time I looked at photos of the SU57 right off the bat it had similar lines to the YF23. Same area rule dimensions, very similar ratios over all, similar all turning tail planes, related wing but looks like the Russians designed better, but the area rule is there in both. Both just beautiful aircraft. The 22 and chink 5th Gen's don't have those natural graceful lines. But that a solely personal perspective.
Oh, yeah, hope they get the SU75 up and in production, thats going to be a instant classic fighter, if the Russian's pull it off, which they most likely will if they receive tenders for it. Probably be in relative terms the next F16 but its 5-6th Gen version. A stealth advanced hot rod, especially if the Russian's put their next gen hi bypass turbo mach 1 super cruise fiery heart in it, think its close to 45,000 with afterburner.
DeleteThe F-23 was always the superior plane, and bested the F-22 in nearly every test parameter.
DeleteBut Northrop's production line wasn't located in the home state of the chairman of the Senate Armed Services committee.
Lockheed's was.
And that's how contracts get awarded.
The problem with the 5th Gen Chinese airplanes is their engines. They can't develop the thrust that ours can. The engines also tend to come apart when they are pushed.
ReplyDeletethat's easy the CLINTOOOOONS.....
ReplyDeleteThey are a gutter culture, and all of their advancements are built on the work western, White civilization has done that they stole, or tried to copy. What they don't have, and will never have, is the discipline that it took to create and master. They can certainly copy the F-22, or an aircraft carrier, but they don't have the learning and the failures and the triumphs that it took to get to where we are (or were, now that the military has gone fake and gay). Like the chinese garbage you and I have in our homes, it will all fail, and fail spectacularly.
ReplyDeletethe mig 15 and the F-86.
ReplyDeletenuttin' new.
There have been Chinese spies caught inside Lockheed Martin. I did a quick web search and found a few instances. Also there were reports that the Chinese hacked into LM's non-classified networks where some design info was stored.
ReplyDeleteWho was the spy? "The internet" did it. Plus, we import tens of thousands of Chinese spies every year in the form of "students". And hire them on at defense contractors. And don't get me started on using Cubans to build our ships.
ReplyDeleteBesides - who do you think built most of the components?
The ignorant bigotry displayed here today is disgraceful. That China copied a lot of technology 30 years ago is true. But today China is the world's leader in cutting edge technology, and on average Chinese technology is superior to American technology. That the airplanes are similar is a consequence of wind tunnels and radar flection theory (which is Russian, by the way).
ReplyDeleteSo, China has 80% of the world's 5G base stations, and while we use ours (which are second rate), China runs specialized AI on them to optimize the operations of their factories and ports. China has three-quarters of all the high speed train trackage in the world; all of their cities are connected by high speed rail. They have most of the super computers in the world, and until last year they had the two fastest, all completely homegrown from chips to operating system.
China has 10 times as many engineers and scientists as we do. They lead the world in new patents and in refereed science and engineering papers. About 30% of the graduate students in OUR STEM programs are Chinese citizens, and they go home.
The Chinese economy is growing 3 times as fast as ours, and it is real growth, growth in manufacturing not services. China already has one-third of the world's manufacturing capacity, 75% of its shipbuilding capacity, and all of it is highly optimized. China is a high wage country, at least in its cities. The CPC moved 800 million Chinese from rural poverty to urban life styles that are the equivalent of Western Europe, and maybe better. Xi and the Chinese leadership are publicly committed to raising up the remaining 600 million.
In this country, working class real incomes have been declining and middle class incomes have been stagnant since the '60's. The upper class has captured all the economic growth for 60 years, and they have clawed income away from the workers. We are the only advanced country with a falling life expectancy, just like Russia before Putin took over. Our major cities are filthy and dangerous. Homeless are everywhere. Two-thirds of the population are obese, even children. The number of white people is declining, and our public and private institutions are in a frenzy of anti-white bigotry.
We have fought and lost one stupid, pointless war after another for over 30 years. Somalia, our longest war, has entered its 4th decade. The Houthis have humiliated the US and NATO navies. And we have a ruling class that has a blood lust and is actively seeking wars. We started the Ukraine war with a coup in 2014, and we keep it going at all costs, sabotaging any peace initiative that arises. Netanyahu is maneuvering us into attacking Iran, and he likely will succeed.
Look to the beam in your own eye.
Wow sykes you really did psyke out. America bad,chyna good.
DeleteHe didn't say "America bad", he merely illustrated the rampant ignorance in most of the comments.
DeleteWhile this country has been perfecting DEI, Russia, China and Iran have been perfecting their own technologies and they are now way ahead of us in many advanced technological fields. Their hypersonic missile technology, for instance is at least a decade ahead.
Feel free to contradict anything the above poster said. Because it is pretty damned spot on. Flying back into this country a few weeks ago was sadly a third world experience.
DeleteThe Comments have been invaded by the Chinese bots.
DeleteNot so much. The Chengdu J-20 Mighty Dragon is a very different design than the Lockheed-Martin F-22 Raptor, being a delta wing with canards rather than a conventional layout, it's much larger and has a much longer range. It's designed to meet different requirements than the F-22: J-20 vs F-22
ReplyDeleteHonestly, some of the comments here remind me of some of the ignorant beliefs about Japanese capabilities before WW2. They lost, but we damned sure knew we'd been in a serious fight. The difference now is that the manufacturing capability shoe is on the otheer foot now. There will be no more F-22s, while the J-20 is in production. F-22 may be higher quality in many ways, but as Germany learned to its sorrow in WW2, "Quantity has a quality all its own."
Yes, the Chinese steal tech. Only a moron wouldn't use pre-existing research if it was available. We do, too, when and where we can. We still have the advantage there, but China is working really damned hard to pull ahead while we whoop our own asses with bureaucratic grit in the gears and DEI-type idiocies.
Bill Clinton
ReplyDeleteI remember when they found chinese spyware in the chips used in DoD servers. Stayed on the news for about two days. Since it has been found on routers. You would think that someone on our side would have thought to prevent that by maybe only using American made chips. Before you start, we can make our own just not as cheaply
ReplyDelete