And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Empty fuel tanks that were sealed and not cracked open like this guys left wing make for better flotation. Pretty sure the bladder shrinks as fuel is used anyway but the vent into the tank would be a slow but sure leak so, like was stated above, I wouldn’t waste too much time getting unbuckled and and snapping a sharp salute before Davy Jones beckons her beneath.
Bladder tanks don’t shrink, they’re actually attached to the wing skins by snaps or cord run through loops on the bladder & skins. Trust me when I say they purely suck to change. They’re vented to allow fumes out and to let air in to keep them from collapsing as fuel is used. Either way, the plane will float just about long enough for you to get out. There are a lot of holes in airframes even if they aren’t shot up
This aircraft has a large working space under the visible seating area. Navigators office, and the belly gunner access. Notice the window under the "aa-21" markings? Somewhat sealed up, so should be water resistant if not shot up. Guessing this was ditched next to a ship due to fuel starvation. I wonder if the wing damage was due to bumping into the ship while floating?
I seem to recall a photo like this one of George HW Bush after his plane went into the drink and before he was rescued. God bless him and all WW-2 veterans.
IIRC, he bailed out after taking AA fire. He did not verify condition of his two crewmen prior to doing this. If they managed to also bail out, they MAY have ended up on the Jap island he was attacking, where allied personnel were being eaten by the Jap officers. He was rescued before he drifted onto the island.
Someone who can't even put a fake name up has to bash someone named Bush..... Because his name is Bush. "Bush maneuvered the Avenger over the ocean with the hope it would make the journey back to San Jacinto. But the plane began to blaze and clouds of smoke soon enveloped the cockpit. Choking and gasping for air, Bush and one of his aircrewmen wriggled out of the plane and leaped from about 1,500 feet. His other crewman, dead or seriously injured from the blast, went down with the Avenger."
From here: https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/biographies-list/bios-b/bush-george-h-w/ltjg-george-bush-in-world-war-ii.html
Kurt, I didn't much care for Sr, but voted for him and Jr. Note, each crewman had his own canopy to use for egress. I can't recall if there is a hatch in the belly station for jumping use, but there was no way for any of them to work together with the pilot in leaving by air. Once Bush bails, there is no flight control possible. The two crewmen have access to the belly station, but not the pilot. Been more than 20 years since I've read anything about the Bush flight, but it was stated that he bailed without contact with his crew.
According to the link I attached History.navy.mil. which is probably a better reference than what you remember from 20 years ago, but how would the surviving crewman know to bail out if Bush didn't tell him?
Kurt, it seems to be a common misperception that there is two way communication when the order to bail out is given. This is seldom the case. I would expect that Bush killed the engine, yelled to "bail out!" with the expectation that the crew would hear him over the intercom or directly. Odds are, being closer to the engine and it's heat, and the fuel and oil systems, Bush would be motivated to move as quick as he could in exiting, and would expect the crew to do the same. They would know that once he jumps, the plane would rapidly become an untenable location, and there was no way for him to access the rear crew locations while airborne. He would not be able to see what was happening in the lower crew area, and I doubt he would be able to hear anything, either. If they were in the upper seats, he might have been able to see them, but heavy smoke may have made that questionable. What I read was based on his initial after action report, and if there were survivors he wasn't aware of it. It seems to be common for fellow crew to not be reunited after the loss of an aircraft in combat, and to never meet again during military service.
About 5 minutes, more or less. That big radial engine is like a boat anchor. Drags the nose down quickly.
ReplyDeleteEmpty fuel tanks that were sealed and not cracked open like this guys left wing make for better flotation. Pretty sure the bladder shrinks as fuel is used anyway but the vent into the tank would be a slow but sure leak so, like was stated above, I wouldn’t waste too much time getting unbuckled and and snapping a sharp salute before Davy Jones beckons her beneath.
ReplyDeleteBladder tanks don’t shrink, they’re actually attached to the wing skins by snaps or cord run through loops on the bladder & skins. Trust me when I say they purely suck to change. They’re vented to allow fumes out and to let air in to keep them from collapsing as fuel is used. Either way, the plane will float just about long enough for you to get out. There are a lot of holes in airframes even if they aren’t shot up
DeleteI don’t trust u
DeletePutting that down on water mostly intact is no small feat.
ReplyDeleteI think you could pull a string and a dingy popped out
ReplyDelete( well, if it wasnt shot to shit also )
This aircraft has a large working space under the visible seating area. Navigators office, and the belly gunner access. Notice the window under the "aa-21" markings? Somewhat sealed up, so should be water resistant if not shot up. Guessing this was ditched next to a ship due to fuel starvation. I wonder if the wing damage was due to bumping into the ship while floating?
ReplyDeleteI seem to recall a photo like this one of George HW Bush after his plane went into the drink and before he was rescued. God bless him and all WW-2 veterans.
ReplyDeleteIIRC, he bailed out after taking AA fire. He did not verify condition of his two crewmen prior to doing this. If they managed to also bail out, they MAY have ended up on the Jap island he was attacking, where allied personnel were being eaten by the Jap officers. He was rescued before he drifted onto the island.
DeleteMr. Ballen, former Navy SEAL, has a video on this:
Deletehttps://youtu.be/IB9-eS44A_8?si=-zCCOUTeT2GOdHev
Someone who can't even put a fake name up has to bash someone named Bush..... Because his name is Bush.
Delete"Bush maneuvered the Avenger over the ocean with the hope it would make the journey back to San Jacinto. But the plane began to blaze and clouds of smoke soon enveloped the cockpit. Choking and gasping for air, Bush and one of his aircrewmen wriggled out of the plane and leaped from about 1,500 feet. His other crewman, dead or seriously injured from the blast, went down with the Avenger."
From here:
https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/biographies-list/bios-b/bush-george-h-w/ltjg-george-bush-in-world-war-ii.html
Kurt,
DeleteI didn't much care for Sr, but voted for him and Jr.
Note, each crewman had his own canopy to use for egress. I can't recall if there is a hatch in the belly station for jumping use, but there was no way for any of them to work together with the pilot in leaving by air. Once Bush bails, there is no flight control possible. The two crewmen have access to the belly station, but not the pilot.
Been more than 20 years since I've read anything about the Bush flight, but it was stated that he bailed without contact with his crew.
According to the link I attached History.navy.mil. which is probably a better reference than what you remember from 20 years ago, but how would the surviving crewman know to bail out if Bush didn't tell him?
DeleteKurt, it seems to be a common misperception that there is two way communication when the order to bail out is given. This is seldom the case. I would expect that Bush killed the engine, yelled to "bail out!" with the expectation that the crew would hear him over the intercom or directly. Odds are, being closer to the engine and it's heat, and the fuel and oil systems, Bush would be motivated to move as quick as he could in exiting, and would expect the crew to do the same. They would know that once he jumps, the plane would rapidly become an untenable location, and there was no way for him to access the rear crew locations while airborne. He would not be able to see what was happening in the lower crew area, and I doubt he would be able to hear anything, either. If they were in the upper seats, he might have been able to see them, but heavy smoke may have made that questionable. What I read was based on his initial after action report, and if there were survivors he wasn't aware of it. It seems to be common for fellow crew to not be reunited after the loss of an aircraft in combat, and to never meet again during military service.
DeletePost about ditching: https://pergelator.blogspot.com/2021/01/airplane-of-day-vought-kingfisher.html
ReplyDelete