If this entire situation goes pear-shaped tomorrow, don’t say that you didn’t receive plenty of warnings. We learned over the Christmas holiday period that the nation’s airlines were in a panic over the impending launch of a national 5G network because many of their commercial aircraft could suffer navigational equipment failures when exposed to the new C-band radiation coming from the cell towers. The rollout of the new service, mostly by Verizon and AT&T, was scheduled to start on January 3rd, but the date was pushed back until tomorrow in a “compromise” that basically satisfied nobody. Now the date is almost upon us and the nation’s major airlines have sent an urgent letter to multiple federal government departments warning that a “catastrophic aviation crisis” is on the way unless something is done. They’re talking about the possible cancellation of more than a thousand flights daily, affecting as many as 100,000 passengers. And yet the launch is apparently still scheduled to go forward.
Under the current plan that Buttigieg’s Department of Transportation approved, only fifty airports in the entire country will be “shielded” from the C-band radiation. For the thousands of other airports, the airlines will be forced to pick and choose which planes with newer altimeters can be sent to the rest of them. The planes with older altimeters will be restricted to flights between only those fifty airports. Obviously, this is going to lead to massive disruptions and delays.
Meanwhile, the major cell service carriers paid huge amounts of money to the government for the rights to the 5G bands and they did so based on the good faith of the government to allow them to move forward. How did this turn into such a mess when the problem has been known about and anticipated for so long? And will the Biden administration really allow this to take place tomorrow after having been warned well in advance? Stay tuned, sports fans. We may be about to witness the next in a series of totally preventable debacles caused by nothing but rampant government incompetence.
C-band interference is no laughing matter. Our ships (oil exploration) have strict rules about this, and when these rules are violated, we see interference.
ReplyDeleteOf course, our antennae are much closer together on a ship's antenna platform than in an airport setting, but are also much less powerful.
Nothing bad may happen, but then again...
First, with GPS and an actual altimeter, how is the 3rd radio altimeter the most critical instrument in a commercial airplane? Second, is this year 2000 all over again? A bunch chicken littles and the sky falling?
ReplyDeleteRadio (or radar) altimeters are virtually instant read and indicate height above whatever is directly below the aircraft: ground, buildings, structures, etc. GPS has a delay as does a barometric altimeter and they only give height above the ground surface itself. It’s not THE most critical, but during a low visibility, low ceiling approach it’ll keep you from smacking that building a half mile from the approach end threshold if you get below the glide path.
DeleteTHe radar altimeter is much more precise and updates much more quickly than a GPS or a pressure altimeter.
DeleteSounds like a huge liability case to me .
ReplyDeleteThe actual freqs used (right now) are quite far away. Future freqs will be an issue though.
ReplyDeleteIf FAA had originally purchased adequate radios, this wouldnt be an issue.
Radios are purpose built to specific spectrum. They owned the spectrum when the radios were purchased but the FCC sold the spectrum out from under them to wireless companies.
DeleteI call BS on the whole thing. New fear porn was needed and here it is.
ReplyDeleteThe rollout of 5G was no secret. Needed a new scare to keep the sheeple entertained.
The frequencies are an ADJACENT band, not the same. Pretty much the same thought process that says you have to "Turn off your cell phone to prevent interference while taking off and landing". It's bullshit.
ReplyDeletethe 5g freqs end at 3.8 GHz, the radar altimeters start at 4.2. Pretty far separation.
I've flown in corporate jets a few times. I know the pilot and he has never asked anyone to turn off the cell phones. They just quit working when they can't get a signal reliably to a tower for long enough at 500+ MPH. We all left them on and shortly before they dropped the flaps for landing, all our phones started buzzing and dinging with notifications.
DeleteThe "turn off your phone" directive is so that the cattle arent distracted in case of an emergency. Has zero to do with disrupting comms.
DeleteThe FCC did the same back in the 90s and auctioned off military spectrum it then spent years fighting over. Really stupid people in the FCC.
ReplyDeleteThe next time a plane crashes, 5G will be blamed, whether it was implicated or not. Cui Bono? will reveal the winners in this new game.
ReplyDeleteThe FAA kicked out an Airworthiness Directive (AD), basically a change to the federal regulations, about this a few weeks ago. This 5G issue is a problem on certain Instrument Landing System (ILS) approaches to certain runways at certain airports, and only if that approach requires the use of a radio altimeter as determined by the FAA having actually physically flown the approach and published said requirement. The AD is public domain and can be found on the FAA website under the Airworthiness Directive portal. The AD number is 2021-23-12. Go read it and then find a pilot or a A&P mechanic to explain it.
ReplyDeleteI am a pilot...and I own my own plane with a Radar Altimeter.
DeleteTry reading the AD you specified. It is precautionary in nature and is full of "might" and "may" and "could", but nothing definitive.
If there is interference found (not likely) then they will simply NOTAM the approach at that airport until the issue is fixed.
If you knew anything about radio, you'd understand that the separation of the closest frequencies is 220 MHZ....pretty far in todays radio engineering.
Stop reading (and believing) the hype and pontificating on things you don't understand.
"No cellphones on planes" is not the FAA. Interference with avionics isn't the issue (though coördination among multiple hijack teams might be).
ReplyDeleteThe issue is an FCC issue: Up and away from ground clutter, your cellphone ties up precious "I am here" slots on every celltower across three counties.
Yes, it is the FAA:
Deletehttps://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%2091.21-1A/$FILE/AC91-21-1A.pdf
They advise this as a "Precaution" because the people who wrote it don't know shit about radio.
Which is more persuasive: "Turning on your cellphone aloft will jam cellphones on the ground" or "Turn on the cellphone and you may die!"?
DeleteThe *issue* is an FCC one even if the FAA is spreading FUD to help them.
The risk is with CATII and CATIII instrument approaches. These exist at larger airports and are valuable in really "low" weather conditions. Aircraft equipped and tested for CATIII approaches can usually land themselves, and the pilots are monitoring the approach and landing.
ReplyDeleteHow real is the risk? Dunno.
You can blame a lack of communication between the FAA and FEC if there is a real problem. The Fed Gov got big $$$ when selling the radio spectrum to the wireless companies.
Typo. FCC, not the "FEC".
DeleteBest explanation I've seen on the 5G/radioaltimeter issue, albeit from someone with a neck at stake:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=942KXXmMJdY
GO watch that video and LISTEN. Full of "May" "Might" "could" "Possible" and nothing more. No real testing that says there will be interference, and the testing that has been done has shown no interference.
DeleteBut don't let real actual data get past your fear brewed by listening to hype. Ignorance leads to fear, don't it?
And, realize, he is a pilot, not an engineer. He knows how to fly, and how to do checklists and work with the automation and systems of the airplane.
DeleteHe ain't a radio nor electronics expert.
sounds like they planned it in order to further disrupt the economic "flow" of the USA. further dividing the population, watch for some weird MSM media blitz to follow the G5 rollout
ReplyDeletePlane crashes will be blamed on 5G signals instead of vaxxed pilots having "Ischemic Episodes" in the cockpit.
ReplyDeletewe should go back to soup cans with waxed strings
Aw screw it! Just stop flights to and from all the airports that operate around D.C. as a "safety precaution". Say "two weeks" to "flatten the curve". We want to keep the airplanes from falling out of the sky in such an important location. Then, about week 116 to "flatten the curve", announce that all is well and allow flights once again to begin into and out of D.C. for any and survivors...
ReplyDelete5g systems are already in place in a lot of countries. I have read a couple of comments that claim, in France specifically, that the transceivers on the towers are pointed slightly down, to avoid this problem.
ReplyDeleteBut most 1st world countries have managed to run 5g systems without all the planes falling out of the sky.
C-band radiation has been the band of choice for TV due to the high tolerance of rain. Satellite reachback lost a huge chunk of their spectrum to the cell companies. Back when I worked at a teleport where one of the morning tasks was to sweep up the dead birds. 5G is not safe.
ReplyDeleteWell, it is microwave radiation. If you put your head in a microwave oven and defeat the safeties, you will die, too! Home Wifi works on the the same range of frequency as the microwave oven but doesn't have the power. Unless you are in the direct path and very close proximity to the 5G transmitter, there is very little direct radiation. Birds roosting in the antenna path would be the exception since they can get close and in the path of the transmitter.
DeleteI haven't paid much attention to this current permutation in the battle of the spectrum. For those interested you could review Lightsquared (now Ligado) to see how we got to this mess.
ReplyDeleteBy 'mess' I mean the fight over control. And money.
DeletePeople keep misspelling Buttigieg’s name. It is Buttplug. Nothing else will do.
ReplyDeleteHeltau