And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thursday, January 6, 2022
Ultimate Battleship designs from each major power of WWII.
Its sister ship, the Musashi also had 18 inch guns. Both ships were sent to the bottom buy the U.S. Navy's air arm, proving once and for all Billy Mitchell was right. Interesting factoid about both ships. During my time in Japan, visited a museum where a scale model of the Yamato was on display and an elderly gentleman, old enough to have served in the war was giving a talk. What was memorable was he said the crew could not be on deck when the main guns were fired. If anyone was on deck when the main guns were fired, he said they would die from the concussion. Also, both battleships were amoung the first to have air conditioning below deck.
The Montana was started but suspended after the Battle of midway where surface combatants never even fired a shot. It, and its sister ships, was cancelled in 1943.
Was there ever a Battleship vs Battleship engagement in WWII? Maybe the Hood vs the Bismark counts but there seems to be disagreement over whether Hood was a Battleship.
14-15 November 1942 4th Battle of Savo Island, near & part of fighting for Guadalcanal, was a fierce night battle between Japanese & American destroyers & battleships. Battleships involved were Kirshima & Hiei vs South Dakota & Washington. Long story short Kirshima was sunk by Washington under command of Admiral Lee and So. Dakota was heavily damaged.
Battle of Calabria (7/9/40) in the Mediterranean. British and Italian battleships were involved and Warspite scored what may be the longest range hit in history (perhaps 26,000 yards) on the Giulio Cesare.
Kirishima was the oldest "battleship" in Japans arsenal having been launched in 1914 as a "battle cruiser". When she was sunk by the USS South Washington (launched in 1940), she was fighting one of the newest ships in the US arsenal.
Cancelling the Montana class made sense at the time, but proved to br ultimately short-sightedly unfortunate, as we had to keep dragging some or all of the Iowa class battlewagons back into service for the 50s, 60s, and even 1980s.
It turns out nuclear weapons and air power didn't make naval gunfire obsolete, and all wars after 1945 weren't nuclear either. Because it turns out 5" and 16" shells aren't limited by weather constraints, and powder bags are cheaper than jets and pilots to deliver heavy ordnance.
For example, given the unsurpassed US air superiority at the time, imagine shellacking Haiphong Harbor in 1972 from the horizon, instead of mining it, at a cost of zero airframes or pilots.
If we had the four Montana class ships available now, they would probably still be in service, or short-turnaround reserve, not mothballed museum ships.
The problem with battleships is two fold. First, they are insanely expensive to maintain and operate and their return-on-investment is limited in the modern era. Second, sixteen inch guns, while sexy and providing a powerful punch are limited in range and "power projecting" capability as opposed to other, more modern weapon systems. With modern cruise missiles - from a submerged SSGN for example - you can project power, not only over the horizon, but *hundreds* of miles over the horizon. Battleships had their heyday but were shown to be vulnerable to air attack. They might still be useful in the fire support roll, but there are many, much cheaper alternatives.
There are currently several battleships preserved as museum ships around the US including the four Iowa class. They are awesome ships and well worth a visit. However, while you are there, ask one of the curators how much they spend in a year just on paint.
To add to your comment, a number of years ago, we visited the BB Wisconsin in Norfolk, VA and were told by the staff on board that readying it for duty would not be a matter of putting a crew on board, firing up the boilers and steaming out to sea.
It would take at least six months we were told, for the vessel to be made ready for duty and a crew would need to be trained (how long would that take?) to properly operate the ship.
Interesting that the Yamamoto is the only one to have 18" guns?
ReplyDeleteIts sister ship, the Musashi also had 18 inch guns. Both ships were sent to the bottom buy the U.S. Navy's air arm, proving once and for all Billy Mitchell was right. Interesting factoid about both ships. During my time in Japan, visited a museum where a scale model of the Yamato was on display and an elderly gentleman, old enough to have served in the war was giving a talk. What was memorable was he said the crew could not be on deck when the main guns were fired. If anyone was on deck when the main guns were fired, he said they would die from the concussion. Also, both battleships were amoung the first to have air conditioning below deck.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAh, a Google search answered my question about the Montana. It was a new class of battleship, which never got off the drawing board.
DeleteThe Montana was started but suspended after the Battle of midway where surface combatants never even fired a shot. It, and its sister ships, was cancelled in 1943.
DeleteWas there ever a Battleship vs Battleship engagement in WWII? Maybe the Hood vs the Bismark counts but there seems to be disagreement over whether Hood was a Battleship.
ReplyDeleteHMS Prince of Wales was with HMS Hood when the Bismark and Prinz Eugen fought it out.
Delete14-15 November 1942 4th Battle of Savo Island, near & part of fighting for Guadalcanal, was a fierce night battle between Japanese & American destroyers & battleships. Battleships involved were Kirshima & Hiei vs South Dakota & Washington. Long story short Kirshima was sunk by Washington under command of Admiral Lee and So. Dakota was heavily damaged.
DeleteHiei was sunk after the first battle of Guadalcanal. Only Kirshima faced Washington and South Dakota.
DeleteBattle of Surigao Strait, October 1944
DeleteBattle of Surigao straits WW2
ReplyDeleteRead the book "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" for a GREAT read on the last surface actions of WWII.
DeleteI cannot recommend that book more highly. Excellent read.
Hood was a battle cruiser, hopelessly undefended against plunging fire, Sacrificed armour for speed. Beautiful tho, and insanely brave crew
ReplyDeleteBattle of Calabria (7/9/40) in the Mediterranean. British and Italian battleships were involved and Warspite scored what may be the longest range hit in history (perhaps 26,000 yards) on the Giulio Cesare.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI had thought the Yamoto, Musashi and the carrier Shinano were the largest ships built at the time and not surpassed in size until our super carriers
ReplyDeleteYou are correct. The others listed were not completed.
DeleteKirishima was the oldest "battleship" in Japans arsenal having been launched in 1914 as a "battle cruiser". When she was sunk by the USS South Washington (launched in 1940), she was fighting one of the newest ships in the US arsenal.
ReplyDeleteCancelling the Montana class made sense at the time, but proved to br ultimately short-sightedly unfortunate, as we had to keep dragging some or all of the Iowa class battlewagons back into service for the 50s, 60s, and even 1980s.
ReplyDeleteIt turns out nuclear weapons and air power didn't make naval gunfire obsolete, and all wars after 1945 weren't nuclear either. Because it turns out 5" and 16" shells aren't limited by weather constraints, and powder bags are cheaper than jets and pilots to deliver heavy ordnance.
For example, given the unsurpassed US air superiority at the time, imagine shellacking Haiphong Harbor in 1972 from the horizon, instead of mining it, at a cost of zero airframes or pilots.
If we had the four Montana class ships available now, they would probably still be in service, or short-turnaround reserve, not mothballed museum ships.
The problem with battleships is two fold. First, they are insanely expensive to maintain and operate and their return-on-investment is limited in the modern era. Second, sixteen inch guns, while sexy and providing a powerful punch are limited in range and "power projecting" capability as opposed to other, more modern weapon systems. With modern cruise missiles - from a submerged SSGN for example - you can project power, not only over the horizon, but *hundreds* of miles over the horizon. Battleships had their heyday but were shown to be vulnerable to air attack. They might still be useful in the fire support roll, but there are many, much cheaper alternatives.
ReplyDeleteThere are currently several battleships preserved as museum ships around the US including the four Iowa class. They are awesome ships and well worth a visit. However, while you are there, ask one of the curators how much they spend in a year just on paint.
To add to your comment, a number of years ago, we visited the BB Wisconsin in Norfolk, VA and were told by the staff on board that readying it for duty would not be a matter of putting a crew on board, firing up the boilers and steaming out to sea.
DeleteIt would take at least six months we were told, for the vessel to be made ready for duty and a crew would need to be trained (how long would that take?) to properly operate the ship.