And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Friday, January 7, 2022
Raytheon Missiles & Defense proves counter-UAS effectiveness against enemy drones - the explosions are awesome.
What Raytheon doesn't bother to mention is that this system is very expensive, and against swarms of low cost drones won't be all that effective. Pitting a $200K plus missile against a flock of $20K drones will result in a few destroyed drones and a breached security area. Oh, and the developmental cost is astronomical, but I can't complain. That type of work paid for a good living for my family, and I miss being involved with it. In the long run, directed energy weapons will be the answer, but there are still technical challenges to be overcome; dwell time on the target, low observable drones, nap of earth drone flight, and DW energy. I'm sure there are more, but those are the publicly known issues.
Drones with proximity sensors will swoop right around such things. As usual the gov't is behind the times. Modern day private sector drones are leaps ahead of anything the gov't will ever come up with.
You raise a good point about microwave energy being used to counter drone swarms, but I haven't seen anything about the use of modified hobby rockets. I built and launched a lot of Estes Rockets as a kid back in the Jurassic Era. Do you have any links on this?(This is not a criticism of you or your comment)
Just speculation on my part. I also used to buy Estes rockets through the mail. It just seems we already have basic rockets that some brianiac could build a cheap guidance system to fit them. If I could build those as a kid back then, someone should be able to make a simple system these days that could work. *should*
Its a race, just as it was in Vietnam, between the Russian constructed North Vietnamese air defenses and the US ECM community. Ghostsniper, I've read that a lot of civilian drones are being bought by the three letter agencies for testing and other, undisclosed uses. Unfortunately, in the event that the Civil War II goes hot, I suspect that many of them will be used against Americans. But there are counters...
As I understand it, the missile wasn't the problem; the acquisition radar was, just as the radar was the major problem with the DIVAD close in air defense system. That's why I think the video here is cool, but directed energy weapons are the real future of air defense, once the problems are solved(and they can be).
Realistically, the best way to end the drone problem is to hit the launch site with bombs, etc, or have an 18 year old grunt with a bloodied bayonet occupying the location, per Heinlein. That doesn't enrich the Daddy Warbucks, or to be fair, overpaid engineering contractors such as me.
Why not resurrect and update the flak gun ammo that the Allies used in WW2? The knowledge was so closely held during the war, that very little was ever written about it afterwards. Proximity fused. I don't recall how it sensed the aircraft, but it was very effective.
As far as lasers, the question is pulsed or continuous wave. Each requires a different targeting design. I suspect that pulsed might be easier to use. Basically, aim just like an accurate gun. CW may work better if it gets aimed sort of on target, and then waved around to cut up the drone enough to get sufficient damage. Power levels would be key to the design. How portable does it need to be?
What Raytheon doesn't bother to mention is that this system is very expensive, and against swarms of low cost drones won't be all that effective. Pitting a $200K plus missile against a flock of $20K drones will result in a few destroyed drones and a breached security area. Oh, and the developmental cost is astronomical, but I can't complain. That type of work paid for a good living for my family, and I miss being involved with it.
ReplyDeleteIn the long run, directed energy weapons will be the answer, but there are still technical challenges to be overcome; dwell time on the target, low observable drones, nap of earth drone flight, and DW energy. I'm sure there are more, but those are the publicly known issues.
"DW"? energy
DeleteDirected Energy Weapon. Sorry about that. I've seen it pronounced DEW and DW.
Deleteoddly enough I will say nothing at all.
ReplyDeleteDrones with proximity sensors will swoop right around such things.
ReplyDeleteAs usual the gov't is behind the times.
Modern day private sector drones are leaps ahead of anything the gov't will ever come up with.
Yep, directed energy, microwave or even modified hobbyist rockets are a better solution.
ReplyDeleteYou raise a good point about microwave energy being used to counter drone swarms, but I haven't seen anything about the use of modified hobby rockets. I built and launched a lot of Estes Rockets as a kid back in the Jurassic Era. Do you have any links on this?(This is not a criticism of you or your comment)
DeleteJust speculation on my part. I also used to buy Estes rockets through the mail. It just seems we already have basic rockets that some brianiac could build a cheap guidance system to fit them. If I could build those as a kid back then, someone should be able to make a simple system these days that could work. *should*
DeleteI agree with Plague Monk. Like all of our high tech systems, lotsa low tech low cost will over whelm the defense systems rapidly.
ReplyDeleteIts a race, just as it was in Vietnam, between the Russian constructed North Vietnamese air defenses and the US ECM community.
ReplyDeleteGhostsniper, I've read that a lot of civilian drones are being bought by the three letter agencies for testing and other, undisclosed uses. Unfortunately, in the event that the Civil War II goes hot, I suspect that many of them will be used against Americans. But there are counters...
Only if the "drones" in question are the size of Cessnas.
ReplyDeleteYou'd think they could just use an off-the-shelf Sidewinder and resurrect the Chaparral SAM system for that.
This is just throwing tons of money and stupid at a problem, and swatting flies with anvils.
As I understand it, the missile wasn't the problem; the acquisition radar was, just as the radar was the major problem with the DIVAD close in air defense system.
DeleteThat's why I think the video here is cool, but directed energy weapons are the real future of air defense, once the problems are solved(and they can be).
Realistically, the best way to end the drone problem is to hit the launch site with bombs, etc, or have an 18 year old grunt with a bloodied bayonet occupying the location, per Heinlein.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't enrich the Daddy Warbucks, or to be fair, overpaid engineering contractors such as me.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous-rod_warhead, which was used on the Talos missile, vintage 1959-1979.
ReplyDeleteWhy not resurrect and update the flak gun ammo that the Allies used in WW2? The knowledge was so closely held during the war, that very little was ever written about it afterwards. Proximity fused. I don't recall how it sensed the aircraft, but it was very effective.
ReplyDeleteAs far as lasers, the question is pulsed or continuous wave. Each requires a different targeting design. I suspect that pulsed might be easier to use. Basically, aim just like an accurate gun. CW may work better if it gets aimed sort of on target, and then waved around to cut up the drone enough to get sufficient damage. Power levels would be key to the design. How portable does it need to be?