And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thursday, December 14, 2023
Weird gun, but he's got enough ammo for a short battle
The FN P90 is chambered in 5.7×28mm. Muzzle velocity 2350 fps. Effective range 200 meters (220 feet). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90
The P90 is Michael Bloomberg's preferred weapon for use by hizzoner's security team while commuting to his weekend villa in the Bahamas, a country where private ownership of firearms is banned. Mike's team is permitted to carry because he's important.
I believe it was two rounds, fired out the window - into the neighborhood - from a double-barreled shooter, but not at the armed intruder coming through the door.
...both barrels off the back porch...effectively turning your d-barrel shotgun into a club in the face of an intruder. Really swift thinking there Joe.
Weight of the ammo goes up with the cube of dimension change. Thus if .22mag weighs one unit you have to multiply .22x 1.727 =.38. 1.727 cubed is 5.15 times as heavy.
The 5.7x28 is a centerfire cartridge. More reliable than the .22 magnum rimfire, and fits better in a magazine. If you really want more oomph, you could try to find one of the few 5.7 Johnson (Spitfire) rifles.
Other than the can (suppressor) the idea is to have a weapon for those personnel who don't normally goto the range. Infantry goes to the range. Supply clerks do not. Does your significant other practice regularly with any/all pistols you have? Mine doesn't.
Using a pistol is a perishable skill. Eliminating the pistol, by having 2 points of contact - hand & shoulder reduces the amount of skill needed for accurate enough shooting.
Second, having a reasonable number of rounds on the weapon eliminates the need for mag changes as that is another skill not practiced. Nurses, doctors, dentists, cooks, clerks, etc get how much practice loading weapons? Near zero.
Third, the shortened overall length, and not having an extended magazine, allows this weapon to be more easily used going thru ports. Like doors, hatches, windows. In a situation where these non-infantry types need to be armed, they are also likely in a place where normally operating doors are barricaded, or damaged. Moving thru a tent flap with a full length Modern Sporting Rifle or, Shotgun is challenging, more than you know if you have not tried it, or practiced it. Working in an devastated area following an hurricane, tornado, earthquake, fire? Maybe you are on/off a quad, tractor, or Gator. In and out of a POV. When's the last time you practiced that?
The pic maybe a US civilian version with a fake, but permanently attached "can". Because of the purely administrative BS of having a minimum length of a weapon which is not a pistol. (See Short Barreled, or Arm Brace on the AFT web site)
Experience of the shooter and willingness to practice had nothing to do with the development of this firearm. The purpose was to make something with a great deal of energy on target in a package that could easily be maneuvered in vehicles, with high capacity, low recoil, and great ability to penetrate body armor. I don't think any of that has especial relevance to "non-infantry" personnel.
Mag locked = 300rds. Then, try getting 2k+fps out of a .22mag without a LONG BARREL. My Ruger 57 gets 2300fps from a 6" barrel. The 5.7x28 is superior to the .22mag, all day, every day.
If had as designed...with a short suppressed barrel and full auto option it a handy tool for up close work. In civilian form it's no basically a range toy. My son in law has one. Neat toy. But since I can't have one short barreled with FA I'll stick with a 16" barrel AR. I don't live in an urban area, I live in the desert. In a city this would be a bit more useful.
I wouldn't want to be shot by one, but I also wouldn't trust my life to such an anemic round. Mousetraps hurt too, but they're not for life-or-death self-defense.
I fired a few rounds through one a number of years ago. It was heavier than I thought it was going to be, and my off hand felt a little too close to the muzzle. I didn't get to shoot it enough to get familiar with it, so I am not sure my assessment is entirely fair.
I did own a 5.7x28 pistol for a time, but it got to the point that I didn't like spending that much money on ammo I couldn't readily find in my local toy store. Neat round, neat carbine, not for me.
A bit or research shows in the pistol the 5.7 x28 has three times the impact power of the 22 WMR mentioned. In the Carbine is appears the advantage shrink to about twice.
Weight and bulk looks to be about equal to a standard loadout. Hmm, long time since I've seen any of the Stargate/SG-1 shows. IIRC, they had rigs to carry lots of mags. No idea if custom or OTS.
PS90 with a can and 250 rounds? Yeah, I’d say so
ReplyDeleteNow imagine that one size larger, chambered for a .30 Carbine or a rimless .357 Maximum. Locked breech. A nice 250 yard battle rifle.
ReplyDeleteDrew458
The FN P90 is chambered in 5.7×28mm. Muzzle velocity 2350 fps. Effective range 200 meters (220 feet).
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90
The P90 is Michael Bloomberg's preferred weapon for use by hizzoner's security team while commuting to his weekend villa in the Bahamas, a country where private ownership of firearms is banned. Mike's team is permitted to carry because he's important.
200 meters is 219 yards or 656 feet. One idiot LAPD dept. chief said the 5.7 X 28 round was only good for hunting lions and bears. UFB.
DeleteMy bad. That was a brain fart. I meant to say 220 yards, not feet.
DeleteOld age creeping.
Nobody needs more than 1 round. Joe B.
ReplyDeleteI believe it was two rounds, fired out the window - into the neighborhood - from a double-barreled shooter, but not at the armed intruder coming through the door.
Delete...both barrels off the back porch...effectively turning your d-barrel shotgun into a club in the face of an intruder. Really swift thinking there Joe.
DeleteNemo
Weight of the ammo goes up with the cube of dimension change. Thus if .22mag weighs one unit you have to multiply .22x 1.727 =.38. 1.727 cubed is 5.15 times as heavy.
ReplyDeleteIsn't a .38 bullet actually a .35 inch in diameter?
DeleteYes, an unfired 38 Special bullet is .357" in diameter. The 357magnum has a stretched 38 Special case.
DeleteAl_in_Ottawa
Ottawa Canada? I remember when you guys could own guns. Those were the days, eh?
DeletePS90 is very handy when operating from a vehicle. Modern problems require modern solutions
ReplyDeleteCould have bought a new one at the local gun store for 1k but didn't. Been on my bucket list since.
ReplyDelete5.7 is expensive .22 magnum, ballistically. Lots more expensive for not much more hit power.
ReplyDeleteBut the gun is cool.
Thinking the difference is enough to change the lethalness?
DeleteThe 5.7 x28 is also effective for about twice the distance.
The 5.7x28 is a centerfire cartridge. More reliable than the .22 magnum rimfire, and fits better in a magazine. If you really want more oomph, you could try to find one of the few 5.7 Johnson (Spitfire) rifles.
DeleteOther than the can (suppressor) the idea is to have a weapon for those personnel who don't normally goto the range. Infantry goes to the range. Supply clerks do not. Does your significant other practice regularly with any/all pistols you have? Mine doesn't.
ReplyDeleteUsing a pistol is a perishable skill. Eliminating the pistol, by having 2 points of contact - hand & shoulder reduces the amount of skill needed for accurate enough shooting.
Second, having a reasonable number of rounds on the weapon eliminates the need for mag changes as that is another skill not practiced. Nurses, doctors, dentists, cooks, clerks, etc get how much practice loading weapons? Near zero.
Third, the shortened overall length, and not having an extended magazine, allows this weapon to be more easily used going thru ports. Like doors, hatches, windows. In a situation where these non-infantry types need to be armed, they are also likely in a place where normally operating doors are barricaded, or damaged. Moving thru a tent flap with a full length Modern Sporting Rifle or, Shotgun is challenging, more than you know if you have not tried it, or practiced it. Working in an devastated area following an hurricane, tornado, earthquake, fire? Maybe you are on/off a quad, tractor, or Gator. In and out of a POV. When's the last time you practiced that?
The pic maybe a US civilian version with a fake, but permanently attached "can". Because of the purely administrative BS of having a minimum length of a weapon which is not a pistol. (See Short Barreled, or Arm Brace on the AFT web site)
see also this post
Deletehttps://dailytimewaster.blogspot.com/2023/12/blog-post_67.html
The top 4 - 1911, M1928, M3, M1 carbine - are also reasonable for the personal defense role,
Experience of the shooter and willingness to practice had nothing to do with the development of this firearm. The purpose was to make something with a great deal of energy on target in a package that could easily be maneuvered in vehicles, with high capacity, low recoil, and great ability to penetrate body armor. I don't think any of that has especial relevance to "non-infantry" personnel.
DeleteDon't non-infantry(Army) personnel still have to qualify?
DeleteNemo
Mag locked = 300rds. Then, try getting 2k+fps out of a .22mag without a LONG BARREL. My Ruger 57 gets 2300fps from a 6" barrel. The 5.7x28 is superior to the .22mag, all day, every day.
ReplyDeleteIf had as designed...with a short suppressed barrel and full auto option it a handy tool for up close work. In civilian form it's no basically a range toy. My son in law has one. Neat toy. But since I can't have one short barreled with FA I'll stick with a 16" barrel AR. I don't live in an urban area, I live in the desert. In a city this would be a bit more useful.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't want to be shot by one, but I also wouldn't trust my life to such an anemic round.
ReplyDeleteMousetraps hurt too, but they're not for life-or-death self-defense.
Anemic? It's what Maj. Nidal Hassan, Soldier of Allah, used to kill 13 people at Fort Hood in 2009.
DeleteFact
DeleteAnd Hassan used a 5.7 pistol, which has a lower muzzle velocity than the carbine. BTW, why is that guy still alive?
DeleteYou can kill 13 people with a .22 too, Elmo, but it's not a defensive round unless the alternative is harsh language.
DeleteAnd Hassan is still alive because we don't execute quadraplegics.
In a perfect world, we'd shampoo him with pork fat daily though.
I fired a few rounds through one a number of years ago. It was heavier than I thought it was going to be, and my off hand felt a little too close to the muzzle. I didn't get to shoot it enough to get familiar with it, so I am not sure my assessment is entirely fair.
ReplyDeleteI did own a 5.7x28 pistol for a time, but it got to the point that I didn't like spending that much money on ammo I couldn't readily find in my local toy store. Neat round, neat carbine, not for me.
They worked pretty well against the Jaffa.
ReplyDelete-- Mr. Mayo
SG-1 approves...
DeleteI've used one in video games, spray and pray.
ReplyDeleteThese are quite fun to shoot, and unlike some of the other bullpup designs is a reasonable shooter. The matching pistol is a delight.
ReplyDeleteA bit or research shows in the pistol the 5.7 x28 has three times the impact power of the 22 WMR mentioned. In the Carbine is appears the advantage shrink to about twice.
ReplyDeleteAim then fire... that is a lot of ammo
ReplyDeleteThat's more rounds than I carried in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteWeight and bulk looks to be about equal to a standard loadout.
DeleteHmm, long time since I've seen any of the Stargate/SG-1 shows. IIRC, they had rigs to carry lots of mags. No idea if custom or OTS.
again you show your dumbassness.
ReplyDelete