And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
The P-40 and the F4F Wildcat were obsolete when the war began but were still our two top fighters in service. Tough planes, they could not climb or turn with the Japanese Zero, then considered perhaps the world's best fighter. But they couldn't be touched in a dive. The Flying Tigers discovered that Boom N'Zoom tactics worked well against the enemy and to never get into a turnfight with a Zero. Lt Thach further developed the teamwork technique known as the "Thach Weave" that further gave these aircraft the upper hand. Superior tactics and strong discipline, lots of .50cals to train on the enemy...and the ability to take more punishment than Rick James' girlfriends.
The planes may have been obsolete, but the American pilots that flew them were World Class.
Good luck on the move. 75 deg in Pine Grove. Splitting and stacking all done. Got almost 5 cords from that oak that landed on my house. Lots of chunks for BBQ!! Believe me, I am making good use of those. MfG Goetz
UH NO! The P-40 and F-4F were brand new state of the art aircraft in 1941. In fact both had been in production and military service for less than 5 years. The fact that they were both underpowered and inferior to almost all of the other fighter aircraft on earth had nothing to do with them being obsolete. You seem to forget that from 1941 to 1943 the Zero flew rings around the British Spitfire. Had the Japanese managed to produce a working three stage supercharger. There is a very good chance that the P-51, P47, P-38 and Hellcats would have had little chance in 43-44-45 vs the next Gen of Japanese fighters. Both the Shindin Ki and A7M would have swept the sky of the navy sweeps and B-29s had they been able to fight above 20000 feet ,and been produced in numbers. Had the Japanese gotten a three stage supercharger and 2000+ HP aircraft engine into production in 42-43 we might not have won the war----Ray
I still maintain they were obsolete. I already pointed out they were our service fighters...that doesn't mean they aren't obsolete. The Zeroes, BF-109s, Spitfires could all out turn and out climb these guys. You admit that they were underpowered and inferior...but you seem to think that doesn't mean ours were obsolete. Strange thinking.
That word does not mean what you think it means. They were not "obsolete". The BF109, Spitfire, and zero ALL went into production years before the F4F or the P-40. Obsolete DOES NOT mean inferior. It means "out of date/out of production". They were both state of the art. Just underpowered. Had ether one been equipped with better superchargers they would have rivaled the aircraft with the same engine as the P-40. The P-38. ---Ray
Obsolete means 1) nobody makes 'it' anymore or 2) 'it' is still in production, but so are newer & better things (other 'its').
1) logistically obsolete (you can NOT buy it, because it is no longer produced) 2) technically obsolete (you can buy it, but better technology is available )
I mention this because that picture is really cool! (I do military obsolescence studies for a living & have a degree in English).
That's all nice, but I'm thinking making the fuselage tandem, knocking the wings off, redoing the tail section much smaller for looks rather than function, putting wheels on and a V-8 in it, and making it into a roadster. (Only because the OEM engine would be a bit of a gas hog.)
Like they should have done in 1946.
They'd still be on the road, and a paltry Ferrari would be a pale imitation.
About the last thing a number of Jap pilots saw before their Zeros flamed up and crashed over China.
ReplyDeleteThe P-40 and the F4F Wildcat were obsolete when the war began but were still our two top fighters in service. Tough planes, they could not climb or turn with the Japanese Zero, then considered perhaps the world's best fighter. But they couldn't be touched in a dive. The Flying Tigers discovered that Boom N'Zoom tactics worked well against the enemy and to never get into a turnfight with a Zero. Lt Thach further developed the teamwork technique known as the "Thach Weave" that further gave these aircraft the upper hand. Superior tactics and strong discipline, lots of .50cals to train on the enemy...and the ability to take more punishment than Rick James' girlfriends.
ReplyDeleteThe planes may have been obsolete, but the American pilots that flew them were World Class.
Good luck on the move.
75 deg in Pine Grove. Splitting and stacking all done. Got almost 5 cords from that oak that landed on my house. Lots of chunks for BBQ!! Believe me, I am making good use of those.
MfG
Goetz
UH NO! The P-40 and F-4F were brand new state of the art aircraft in 1941. In fact both had been in production and military service for less than 5 years. The fact that they were both underpowered and inferior to almost all of the other fighter aircraft on earth had nothing to do with them being obsolete. You seem to forget that from 1941 to 1943 the Zero flew rings around the British Spitfire. Had the Japanese managed to produce a working three stage supercharger. There is a very good chance that the P-51, P47, P-38 and Hellcats would have had little chance in 43-44-45 vs the next Gen of Japanese fighters. Both the Shindin Ki and A7M would have swept the sky of the navy sweeps and B-29s had they been able to fight above 20000 feet ,and been produced in numbers. Had the Japanese gotten a three stage supercharger and 2000+ HP aircraft engine into production in 42-43 we might not have won the war----Ray
ReplyDeleteI still maintain they were obsolete. I already pointed out they were our service fighters...that doesn't mean they aren't obsolete. The Zeroes, BF-109s, Spitfires could all out turn and out climb these guys. You admit that they were underpowered and inferior...but you seem to think that doesn't mean ours were obsolete.
ReplyDeleteStrange thinking.
That word does not mean what you think it means. They were not "obsolete". The BF109, Spitfire, and zero ALL went into production years before the F4F or the P-40. Obsolete DOES NOT mean inferior. It means "out of date/out of production". They were both state of the art. Just underpowered. Had ether one been equipped with better superchargers they would have rivaled the aircraft with the same engine as the P-40. The P-38. ---Ray
DeleteSemantics...
ReplyDeleteObsolete means 1) nobody makes 'it' anymore or 2) 'it' is still in production, but so are newer & better things (other 'its').
1) logistically obsolete (you can NOT buy it, because it is no longer produced)
2) technically obsolete (you can buy it, but better technology is available )
I mention this because that picture is really cool! (I do military obsolescence studies for a living & have a degree in English).
Carry on.
Thank you, D.B.. Some people get target lock tunnel vision. Or should buy better dictionaries.
ReplyDeleteMfG
Goetz
That's all nice, but I'm thinking making the fuselage tandem, knocking the wings off, redoing the tail section much smaller for looks rather than function, putting wheels on and a V-8 in it, and making it into a roadster.
ReplyDelete(Only because the OEM engine would be a bit of a gas hog.)
Like they should have done in 1946.
They'd still be on the road, and a paltry Ferrari would be a pale imitation.