And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
I cannot recall the name, or the tail number of the aircraft, but it was the B-17 that the Collings Foundation had, the one that crashed last year on approach in CT. I got a ride in that bomber for Fathers Day of '07 and it was a blast! Hot day, but clear as a bell and a slight breeze. We took off from Westchester County Airport in NY and flew around for around 30 minutes at around 5k in altitude. One gets a HUGE wake up call sitting in the nose gunners seat at the very front of that aircraft! Imagine a BF-190E, or a FW-190 screaming at you doing 300 knots and pouring out all that lead in your direction and you have no where to go! It gives one pause.
The Nine-o-nines. I rode in her around 15 years ago in Westminster, Maryland with my dear friend who was a co-pilot in a B-17 in WWII. Like a lot of WWII vets he has since passed away.
While the numbers are large, trying to compare then to now is an apples to oranges comparison. Pressures and necessities were different in WW II than now.
A guy that lived down the street from me when I was a kid went down in a B-17 over Holland-a bomb detonated early just below the plane. All but 2 parachuted out. He was injured upon impact, was found, treated and hidden for 3 months by Dutch underground and made it back to England. Don't know about the rest of the survivors.
Cool yes, and a historical journey well worth the view. But from afar. Do yourselves a favor and stay the fuck out of those damned things. They were built 75+ years ago for a temporary and deadly purpose, not for nostalgia and not for sightseeing. They will kill you and the old fucks driving them. The maintenance is very suspect and there is precious little room for error; when one of those piston-slapping beasts losses a mag or pukes a valve chances are good the remaining three are pooping along at less than rated and will take you to the scene of the accident. Yes they are impressive and yes they are endlessly interesting. But no. Don't. Many good men met their end during training and combat with the sound of those radials and the screech of air the last things in their disbelieving ears. Let their memories rest in honor and do not romanticize the past. Apologies for crapping all over some daydreams but the truth is what it is.
I love the sound of radial engines but they are complicated and tricky and don't give you fault codes. I had an older relative who spent WWII as a Bomber Pilot in the European Theater and I can tell you that he was not nostalgic about the war. At all.
The B-17 was a very good aircraft based on the survival of some after severe battle damage. Dan P., your assumptions and assertions are fatuous and fallacious. By your reasoning all WW II era aircraft should be grounded.
Well BillB those are not assumptions and assertions but knowledge, neither fatuous nor fallacious but thank you for your assumptions and assertions. None of the present danger owes anything to survival of war damage in the 40s; seventy five years or more have passed and many of those aircraft have not been subject to the aging aircraft inspection program meant to detect corrosion and cracks in airframe members (they are operated under either Part 91 or Part 135 but unscheduled). So if romance overrides your sense of prudent safety measures then by all means go for it. And yes, pending a thorough examination of the aircraft and her maintenance records many of those damnable things of all designations should be grounded. The recent fatal crash of "Nine-0-Nine" is a good example of why
Good morning. Not a photographer but a doer of good deeds and friend to dogs and cute women. I've been in the aviation maintenance business since the 80s.
We had a B-17 and a Henkel Bomber fly over my hometown in SW Kansas once. They flew over town at about 1000 feet. The glorious noise coming from those engines literally stopped traffic in the middle of town with people getting out of their cars to see what that noise was! They landed at the towns airport that was a B-17 training base in WWII.
One day back in the 90's I was visiting my sister and brother in law in Rochester, N.Y. I was in side house when I heard those engines approaching. It was a fine June afternoon and the big war bird was heading to the Geneseo Air port for the big air show they had there. I remember yelling as I headed to the front door to get a look at it, "It's a B-17. It's a B-17." I just made it the front door to see it appear flying directly over the house at rough 1000 feet. What a sound it made. Now here's the odd part. I never heard one live before that day, except in the movies. I recognized the sound before I even knew what it was.
Went wandering down the YouTube rabbit hole and found this--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVemHs2Vo1w
Back in the mid-90's, A partner and I had an auto electric re-build shop in Chico, CA. I had a couple of live 20mm rounds on the back of my work bench. One day an old dirt farmer came in. When he saw those rounds, he remarked "I've had plenty of those shot at me". Turned out he was Fred Rabo. His remarks start at the 38:33 mark in the above video. Google Major Fred Rabo for more details.
My dad was a B-17 pilot with the 447th BG. He flew 35 missions over Europe.
Both my missile wings were B-17 Bomb Groups in WW2. Met my wife in my second missile wing. She wound up as the Public Affairs officer, and going thru the file cabinet, found two B&W photos of Clark Gable, one in front of a waist-gunner station, and one AT a waist-gunner station. No documentation available. 351st Bomb Group. Made a film there, available on You Tube, labelled Air Combat. I only found out about the filming some years later when I found a 6-DVD set at Costco labelled WWII AIR WAR. Could find this at www.topics-ent.com. Number on the bottom of the box: 60152
Very cool indeed. Wiki says that triangle-W is the 398th Bomb Group. Odd that the tail wheel is down in the nearest ship.
ReplyDeleteMight have a problem with the retracting mech. No biggie, just burn a little extra gas!
DeleteI guess this is a recent photo?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI guess this is a recent photo?
ReplyDeleteRide of the Valkyries immediately comes to mind. Ohio Guy
ReplyDeleteOr "Fortunate Son"
DeleteHow is this for some juxtaposition?
DeleteNo. 1 song for 1944.
Not the 20mm cannon or 8mm mg shells heard by those guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CDs067081E
I cannot recall the name, or the tail number of the aircraft, but it was the B-17 that the Collings Foundation had, the one that crashed last year on approach in CT. I got a ride in that bomber for Fathers Day of '07 and it was a blast! Hot day, but clear as a bell and a slight breeze. We took off from Westchester County Airport in NY and flew around for around 30 minutes at around 5k in altitude. One gets a HUGE wake up call sitting in the nose gunners seat at the very front of that aircraft! Imagine a BF-190E, or a FW-190 screaming at you doing 300 knots and pouring out all that lead in your direction and you have no where to go! It gives one pause.
ReplyDeleteThe Nine-o-nines. I rode in her around 15 years ago in Westminster, Maryland with my dear friend who was a co-pilot in a B-17 in WWII. Like a lot of WWII vets he has since passed away.
DeleteHere's some sobering statistics.......
ReplyDeletehttps://www.realclearhistory.com/articles/2019/02/12/staggering_statistics_15000_us_airmen_killed_in_training_in_ww_ii_412.html.
Exactly.
DeleteWhile the numbers are large, trying to compare then to now is an apples to oranges comparison. Pressures and necessities were different in WW II than now.
DeleteWhat a great photo.
ReplyDeleteA guy that lived down the street from me when I was a kid went down in a B-17 over Holland-a bomb detonated early just below the plane. All but 2 parachuted out. He was injured upon impact, was found, treated and hidden for 3 months by Dutch underground and made it back to England. Don't know about the rest of the survivors.
ReplyDeleteCool yes, and a historical journey well worth the view. But from afar.
ReplyDeleteDo yourselves a favor and stay the fuck out of those damned things. They were built 75+ years ago for a temporary and deadly purpose, not for nostalgia and not for sightseeing. They will kill you and the old fucks driving them.
The maintenance is very suspect and there is precious little room for error; when one of those piston-slapping beasts losses a mag or pukes a valve chances are good the remaining three are pooping along at less than rated and will take you to the scene of the accident.
Yes they are impressive and yes they are endlessly interesting. But no. Don't.
Many good men met their end during training and combat with the sound of those radials and the screech of air the last things in their disbelieving ears. Let their memories rest in honor and do not romanticize the past.
Apologies for crapping all over some daydreams but the truth is what it is.
Wow Dan, you're just a ray of sun shine aren't you.
DeleteScrew that! If I ever got a chance to fly in one there would be no holding me back!!!
DeleteI love the sound of radial engines but they are complicated and tricky and don't give you fault codes. I had an older relative who spent WWII as a Bomber Pilot in the European Theater and I can tell you that he was not nostalgic about the war. At all.
DeleteThe B-17 was a very good aircraft based on the survival of some after severe battle damage. Dan P., your assumptions and assertions are fatuous and fallacious. By your reasoning all WW II era aircraft should be grounded.
DeleteWell BillB those are not assumptions and assertions but knowledge, neither fatuous nor fallacious but thank you for your assumptions and assertions. None of the present danger owes anything to survival of war damage in the 40s; seventy five years or more have passed and many of those aircraft have not been subject to the aging aircraft inspection program meant to detect corrosion and cracks in airframe members (they are operated under either Part 91 or Part 135 but unscheduled).
DeleteSo if romance overrides your sense of prudent safety measures then by all means go for it.
And yes, pending a thorough examination of the aircraft and her maintenance records many of those damnable things of all designations should be grounded. The recent fatal crash of "Nine-0-Nine" is a good example of why
Hi Dan are you the photographer of many old aircraft?
ReplyDeleteGood morning. Not a photographer but a doer of good deeds and friend to dogs and cute women. I've been in the aviation maintenance business since the 80s.
DeleteBesides, you can die from walking across the street. Live life my friend, there is no consolation prize for second place!
ReplyDeleteWe had a B-17 and a Henkel Bomber fly over my hometown in SW Kansas once. They flew over town at about 1000 feet. The glorious noise coming from those engines literally stopped traffic in the middle of town with people getting out of their cars to see what that noise was! They landed at the towns airport that was a B-17 training base in WWII.
ReplyDeleteOne day back in the 90's I was visiting my sister and brother in law in Rochester, N.Y. I was in side house when I heard those engines approaching. It was a fine June afternoon and the big war bird was heading to the Geneseo Air port for the big air show they had there. I remember yelling as I headed to the front door to get a look at it, "It's a B-17. It's a B-17." I just made it the front door to see it appear flying directly over the house at rough 1000 feet. What a sound it made. Now here's the odd part. I never heard one live before that day, except in the movies. I recognized the sound before I even knew what it was.
DeleteUnfortunately that German Bomber is no more..........
DeleteWent wandering down the YouTube rabbit hole and found this--
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVemHs2Vo1w
Back in the mid-90's, A partner and I had an auto electric re-build shop in Chico, CA. I had a couple of live 20mm rounds on the back of my work bench. One day an old dirt farmer came in. When he saw those rounds, he remarked "I've had plenty of those shot at me". Turned out he was Fred Rabo. His remarks start at the 38:33 mark in the above video. Google Major Fred Rabo for more details.
My dad was a B-17 pilot with the 447th BG. He flew 35 missions over Europe.
http://www.447bg.com/
Both my missile wings were B-17 Bomb Groups in WW2. Met my wife in my second missile wing. She wound up as the Public Affairs officer, and going thru the file cabinet, found two B&W photos of Clark Gable, one in front of a waist-gunner station, and one AT a waist-gunner station. No documentation available. 351st Bomb Group. Made a film there, available on You Tube, labelled Air Combat. I only found out about the filming some years later when I found a 6-DVD set at Costco labelled WWII AIR WAR. Could find this at www.topics-ent.com. Number on the bottom of the box: 60152
ReplyDelete