And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
B-17G model, the first with the nose guns. Installed after the German fighters had figured out the best point of attack was from directly in front, where previous models' gun coverage was lacking.
Hi Elmo. You are correct. Apologies in advance for a minor nit pick. The early nose guns were field modifications and stuck out through the plexiglass nose. The round circle in the plexiglass left (our view) of the rounded triangle plate is likely a patch where a nose gun was mounted.
The setup here is called a chin turret (I have no doubt you already knew that, just a case of CRS). It is a modification that was retained and adopted from the YB-40 gunships--
"Chin Turret". No, I didn't know that. Now I do. I saw the first nose gun on an image search. I thought it was an odd-looking thing and figured that it didn't last long.
And no worries about the nit-pick. Always glad to learn from the guy that knows more about B-17s than anybody else I know.
I had a ride in Aluminum Overcast more than 10 years ago, quite memorable. Sadly I neglected to charge my iPhone beforehand but still got some great pictures with the digital Nikon. Wife was afraid I might not come back when I told her I was going for a ride in WW2 bomber! LOL
She passed my way, too. Unfortunately it was raining that day so they weren't taking passengers. If I remember correctly, she was built too late for WW2 and spent some time as an aerial firefighter before being sold and restored. Gorgeous plane. -lg
That plane was engineered in 1933 to 1935 and shows the results of the weak aluminum available then. The prototype was flown through a hurricane to check fuselage robustness. Passed with flying colors. The thing is the robustness of the wing shape (chord thickness) limited the cruising speed of the B-17 making them easy targets for fighter aircraft to intercept on multiple passes. A thinner wing of the P-38/B-29 variety would have given a cruising speed 100mph faster and higher altitude. Bombing accuracy would not have suffered as there wasn't any. The Norden bomb sight was a psychological tool. (Uncle was bombardier on B-17 and dropping with in a half mile of the aiming point was considered great.
I did my fluids lab work using the scale wind tunnel (Akerman Hall, University of Minnesota) used to develop the NACA lifting body plan forms in the '30s and '40s. Yeah I'm old.
Spin is correct. The selling claim was dropping a bomb "in a pickle barrel". Well, sorta. Over Arizona. In the summer in a clear sky, with no wind, no flak, no fighters. Maybe.
When my dad flew later in the war, he had a togglier, no bombardier and no bomb sight. Idea was to fly a tight formation. Toggliers all watched the lead ship in formation, which did have a bombardier and bomb sight. Everybody dropped with the lead ship. When they got it right, the results could be pretty spectacular.
I once got to fly on Aluminum Overcast about 30 years ago. I got 10 minutes in the seat. It was smaller than the C-130s that I flew but was not too tight.
B-17 Sentimental Journey.
ReplyDeleteB-17G model, the first with the nose guns. Installed after the German fighters had figured out the best point of attack was from directly in front, where previous models' gun coverage was lacking.
ReplyDeleteHi Elmo. You are correct. Apologies in advance for a minor nit pick. The early nose guns were field modifications and stuck out through the plexiglass nose. The round circle in the plexiglass left (our view) of the rounded triangle plate is likely a patch where a nose gun was mounted.
DeleteThe setup here is called a chin turret (I have no doubt you already knew that, just a case of CRS). It is a modification that was retained and adopted from the YB-40 gunships--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YB-40_Flying_Fortress
Immediately to the left of circle patch is a pole with a controller at the top. It pivots over to center and is the turret control for the bombardier.
"Chin Turret". No, I didn't know that. Now I do.
DeleteI saw the first nose gun on an image search. I thought it was an odd-looking thing and figured that it didn't last long.
And no worries about the nit-pick. Always glad to learn from the guy that knows more about B-17s than anybody else I know.
BTW, your linked video is really good.
Sexy looking aircraft. Lets do some barrel roles!
ReplyDeleteIn the air.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIHj0Af78xE
Forgot to add:
DeleteTexas DPS commercial--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlFD0Zyl_f0
Making of--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8veDpPwFCVM#t=574.4493392
all cockpits re cramped.
ReplyDeleteThat is roomier than most
I had a ride in Aluminum Overcast more than 10 years ago, quite memorable. Sadly I neglected to charge my iPhone beforehand but still got some great pictures with the digital Nikon. Wife was afraid I might not come back when I told her I was going for a ride in WW2 bomber! LOL
ReplyDeleteShe passed my way, too. Unfortunately it was raining that day so they weren't taking passengers.
DeleteIf I remember correctly, she was built too late for WW2 and spent some time as an aerial firefighter before being sold and restored.
Gorgeous plane.
-lg
That plane was engineered in 1933 to 1935 and shows the results of the weak aluminum available then. The prototype was flown through a hurricane to check fuselage robustness. Passed with flying colors. The thing is the robustness of the wing shape (chord thickness) limited the cruising speed of the B-17 making them easy targets for fighter aircraft to intercept on multiple passes.
ReplyDeleteA thinner wing of the P-38/B-29 variety would have given a cruising speed 100mph faster and higher altitude. Bombing accuracy would not have suffered as there wasn't any. The Norden bomb sight was a psychological tool. (Uncle was bombardier on B-17 and dropping with in a half mile of the aiming point was considered great.
I did my fluids lab work using the scale wind tunnel (Akerman Hall, University of Minnesota) used to develop the NACA lifting body plan forms in the '30s and '40s. Yeah I'm old.
Spin
Gravity Bombs are very accurate. They always hit the Ground.
DeleteSpin is correct. The selling claim was dropping a bomb "in a pickle barrel". Well, sorta. Over Arizona. In the summer in a clear sky, with no wind, no flak, no fighters. Maybe.
DeleteWhen my dad flew later in the war, he had a togglier, no bombardier and no bomb sight. Idea was to fly a tight formation. Toggliers all watched the lead ship in formation, which did have a bombardier and bomb sight. Everybody dropped with the lead ship. When they got it right, the results could be pretty spectacular.
I once got to fly on Aluminum Overcast about 30 years ago. I got 10 minutes in the seat. It was smaller than the C-130s that I flew but was not too tight.
ReplyDelete